Nali_WarCow am 27.10.2004 16:31 schrieb:
Du hast bei der Aufzählung sogar noch eine Sache vergessen. Wird sicherlich nicht alle interessieren, aber wie sieht es in X Jahren aus? Ja klar gibt es dann andere, modernere Games, etc. Aber alle Käufer von HL 2 haben z.Z. keinerlei Garantie, daß sie ihr Spiel auch in 2 oder mehr Jahren noch spielen können. Das ein Hersteller Konkurs anmeldet, aufgekauft wird, etc. ist ja nun nichts Besonderes. Hat schon viele getroffen und wird sicherlich weitergehen. Man muß sich ja nur mal ansehen, wie schwer es stellenweise ist einen alten Patch, Mod, etc. zu bekommen. Und ich zumindest lege auch 5 oder mehr Jahre später noch mal ein älteres Game rein und spiele es. Nur in der derzeitigen Form muß man ja damit rechnen, daß einem von dem ein oder den andern Tag diese Möglichkeit genommen wird.
Ne, hab ich nicht vergessen. Hab ich gemeint als ich schriebe, Valve kann (mit Absicht oder Unabsichtlich durch Konkurs, etc.) Steam jederzeit abdrehen so wie sie grad lustig sind und dann geht gar nix mehr.
Im uebrigen kann man sagen "This hits the Nali on the head"
Und ja, ich spiel auch gerne wieder mal ziemlich alte Games. Jetzt gerade mal Deus Ex 1, Unreal, Alice, Wizrdry 8, System Shock 2 und Thief 2. Je nachdem wozu ich gerade Lust habe. Ab und zu ne Partie CS haett mir auch gefallen, geht aber nicht mehr.
Ein Punkt den ich aber noch gar nicht angesprochen habe, ist die Lizenz von Steam. Nachdem was ich von der englischen Lizenz gelesen habe, hat Valve alle Macht der Welt zu tun und lassen was sie wollen. Einzige Option fuer den Kunden: bei nichtgefallen von Steam- oder Lizenzaenderungen den Steam Account aufloesen (und damit alle Spiele unspielbar machen?!). Mich wuerde dabei der Aspekt auf DE/AT bezogen interessieren. Und inwieweit Valve das ueberhaupt juckt. (Ich denke Steam ist sowieso nur dazu da um Geld damit zu machen, also rechne ich damit, dass alles mal Geld kostet, vl auch Patches). Aber wegen einem 50,- EUR Game klagen? Oder den Account aufloesen und dann geht gar nix mehr (was an STeam haengt)? Alles sehr sehr undurchsichtig...
Hierzu gibts interessante Infos: (auf englisch aus einer NG)
Attention: Valve Software
Several years ago I was a happy gamer and exploring Half-Life on a Pentium II 400 in a big full-tower server case, and I was simply amazed at the game. The graphics were incredible and exciting and the gameplay was fantastic; all of this by a little-known company.
Your development team is now known as a common name around the globe. The Half-Life mods have spawned hundreds of thousand of Counterstrike addicts along with Day of Defeat, and everyone is eagerly awaiting the release of Half-Life 2. Well: not quite everyone.
I am writing this because I feel that you have the right to know and understand why I plan on keeping my fifty dollars to myself rather than purchasing your game. My reasoning is quite simple really, and involves one word: Steam.
I have several reasons for disliking Steam enough to refuse to purchase another Valve/VUG title, please bear with me as I try to cover all of them in hopes that you will change how the system works.
1) When I purchased Half-Life in 1998, I agreed to the contract inside the box (EULA) and never agreed to a forced changing of that contract. When the WON system died and you forced Steam onto your user base, many do not realize that they were also forced to agree to Steams EULA in order to retain functionality of a game they had already purchased under a contract earlier. Now if I want to play Half-Life online, I am forced to agree to a contract (Steam) that I do not agree to. Your company has stolen functionality from a game that I have already paid for.
Section 2.A of the Steam EULA states that:
License Terms.
Steam and your Subscription(s) require the installation of the Steam client and the automatic download of software, other content and updates thereto onto your computer (“Steam Software”). You may not use Steam Software for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions. You understand that Steam may automatically update, pre-load, create new versions or otherwise enhance the Steam Software and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Steam Software may change over time.
In essence you are stating that I agree to your downloading of material onto my PC that I have no control over. If I refuse this section of the EULA, I cannot play any of my Valve software online, despite having paid for it under a previous contract. I for one refuse to have any software on my machine auto-update or auto-download content without manually doing so myself because, quite simply, my PC is my property and nobody has a right to install things without my express permission and full control over such installations.
2) Section 3.F of the Steam EULA states:
F. Third Party Sites.
Steam may provide links to other third party sites. Some of these sites may charge separate fees, which are not included in any Subscription or other fees that you may pay to Valve. Steam may also provide access to third-party vendors, who provide content, goods and/or services on Steam or the Internet. Any separate charges or obligations you incur in your dealings with these third parties are your responsibility.
So here we have a clause stating that despite my original purchase being ad-free and not directing my computer to third-party sites that I do not initiate a connection to myself (as Half-Life did not include ads or web links, merely a master server list), that I will have ads and links directed to me which I have no interest in receiving.
3) One of my more favourite sections in the EULA (section

state:
VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE STEAM SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S). YOU ASSUME THE ENTIRE RISK WITH RESPECT TO THE PERFORMANCE AND RESULTS OF THE STEAM SOFTWARE IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR HARDWARE.
This is an interesting statement when you combine it with item number one. It is stated that I agree and understand Steam will auto-update and auto-download content onto my PC, but in this disclaimer of liability you state that Steam is not guaranteed to be virus-free or secure. So Steam could conceivably auto-download virus and Trojan files if I agree to this EULA that you would attempt to claim no responsibility for. Or my other option is to refuse the Steam EULA and render portions of products I had already paid for, useless and void of functionality that I originally had without Steam. The rest of section 8 goes on to state that you are not responsible or liable for any damages if I am unable to access my account or subscriptions, but once again, those subscriptions are games I have already paid for and agreed to previous contracts not involving Steam.
4) Section 10 of the Steam EULA and Section 11 will be dealt individually despite their close relationship:
10. AMENDMENTS TO THIS AGREEMENT
Valve may amend this Agreement at any time in its sole discretion. As a Subscriber, you agree that Valve may amend the terms of this Agreement. If Valve amends the Agreement, such amendment shall be effective thirty (30) days after posting the new amended Agreement on Steam. You agree to review the Agreement periodically to become aware of such amendments. You can view the Agreement at any time at http://www.steampowered.com/. Your failure to cancel your Account thirty (30) days after an amended Agreement is posted on Steam will mean that you accept all such amendments. If you don’t agree to the amendments or to any of the terms in this Agreement, your only remedy is to cancel your Account or a particular Subscription.
This section states that Valve may change this agreement without my consent and I am forced to conform to the changes, or I must cancel my account and/or subscription. This is not how contract law works. A contract is only valid if there is a meeting of the minds on both sides. I refuse to agree to a contract that states the terms may be changed to anything the other party wants and my only remedy is to cancel, when canceling takes games I have paid for previously and renders them partially non-functional.
5) Section 11 of the EULA, subsections B through C:
…In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including any Subscription fees, will be granted.
C. Termination by Valve.
1. In the case of a recurring payment Subscription (e.g., a monthly subscription), in the event that Valve terminates or cancels your Account or a particular Subscription for convenience, Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide a prorated refund of any prepaid Subscription fees paid to Valve.
2. In the case of a one-time purchase of a product license (e.g., purchase of a single game) from Valve, Valve may choose to terminate or cancel your Subscription in its entirety or may terminate or cancel only a portion of the Subscription (e.g., access to the software via Steam) and Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide access (for a limited period of time) to the download of a stand-alone version of the software and content associated with such one-time purchase.
Item B states that no refunds will be given for cancellation due to a violation of this agreement (fine), illegal activity (fine), or improper activity (not fine). Improper activity as determined by whom?
Section C has two glaringly obvious issues, one in each of the subsections. In item 1, if a subscription or account is terminated “for convenience,” prepaid usage of that account or subscription is not a guaranteed refund for the time not used due to no fault of the user. How can you expect people to agree to a contract that says you can cancel their accounts and keep their money when they did not get what they paid for? The second issue with section C is in item number 2: my subscription or account can be terminated by Valve at any time, and I am not promised the ability to still own the game(s) I paid for?
That is called theft. Nobody in their right mind would give someone $50 for a game to download over the internet while signing away their rights to use, own, or operate that software without your permission and access to a proprietary system such as Steam. It is inconceivable that you would include this statement in your EULA and assume that you can get away with allowing the download of a retail game (which cannot be burned onto a CD as an image), and then decide that if you cancel their account, the customers $50 worth of downloaded content that is subsequently rendered useless is not valid for a hard-copy of the game that can be played without Steam.
I for one refuse to play any games, or use any software, that requires Steam. I re